You're so willing to lump everyone on Earth's misdeeds on one man's soul. That's not having the strength to deal with your shortcomings.

On the contrary, I feel abject shame for my shortcomings, always. It was not my will that ‘lumped’ everyone on Earths misdeeds on Christ (not a man but God in human form), it was God’s Will. For you to think that, it is somehow easier for me to deal with my shortcomings by knowing they are forgiven by such a tremendous sacrifice, than believing there is no one to answer to, no one who paid that price, is not really logical.

"On the contrary, I feel abject shame for my shortcomings, always." I can't take away your guilt and your "abject shame" proves your faith hasn't either. If the immaculate conception was true, Jesus was made from the genetic material of Mary, which does make him human too. This is the philosophy of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Mary's genes distinguish God from himself, while he is him at the same time. The truth is that belief in God justifies anything. Remember that the original translation of "Thou Shalt Not Kill," is really, "Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder." I have a friend who was training as a vicar. He told me that the bulk of the clergy take the Old Testament with a pinch of salt. Why? Because it talks of permitting killing other tribes and taking their women as you would take their cattle. For nearly one and a half millennia, the Pope's words was considered unalterable. It took Henry VIII to give him the figurative middle-finger, to break that hold completely.

So have you never disappointed your father? Or parents/ guardians? (I do not know your circumstances) but, you know that shame you feel when you screw up but they love you anyway? Having shame for disappointing my Father in Heaven doesn’t mean he doesn’t Love and Forgive me anyway. My faith means, I know that He Does, that is why I feel shame in the first place. I am not disputing that Jesus Christ took human form, but He Is God. How can you use the Commandment to not murder in your argument that faith in God justifies anything? The Old Testament has been fulfilled by the Coming of Christ. Who called out the Jewish authorities when they wanted to carry out ‘old law’ eg: the stoning of Mary Magdalene. We have a New Covenant. I do not subscribe to the notion that the Pope is infallible, that is blasphemy.

Catholics do subscribe to the nation that the Pope cannot err in his teachings. Catholicism precedes CofE by 1,200 years (agreed at the Nicaean Creed). I used that Commandment because it shows how interpretation can indeed justify anything. The King James Bible sifted through numerous versions of the scriptural texts and we know that many Gospels are left out. If the Old Testament is fulfilled by the coming of Christ, why did the Jews reject him? Furthermore, why is Jesus's new covenant acceptable to absolve a prostitute but God could never forgive a gay person? I have disappointed my parents but they're tangible. I notice how my actions at disappointing them went over and how they reacted. That's the difference.

I know the principles of Catholicism but I believe the Catholic Church (Vatican) is a corrupt, degenerate institution and I do not subscribe to Pope Francis and his man made doctrines. Yes that makes me, by definition, a Protestant. I’m comfortable with my faith. I am a blood washed Christian above anything else, belonging to a denomination/ church is irrelevant to my relationship with Christ. I use the KJ Bible as my main source although I have studied many others. But your argument fails on that very basis, because KJ prohibits murder (which requires pre meditation) whereas more liberal translations like NIV prohibit killing, which can occur without malice. So how does that equate to interpretation permitting anything? Surely that distortion of scripture prohibits more than it permits? The coming of Christ fulfilled the Old Testament. That some Jews did not (and still do not) acknowledge Him as The Messiah is why and how we have different religions - and atheism (which I trust refers to yourself). I have never said that gays cannot or will not be forgiven by God. I simply said that God, by His Word provided in scripture, tells us He does not support homosexuality, therefore wouldn’t support gay pride. God Said homosexuality is a sin, and yes, I’m the Old Testament gays were killed, BUT, I have used the argument on MANY occasions that, Jesus condemning the execution (by stoning) of an adulterer (someone who, in Old Law, would be put to death) would, in my opinion, also extend to homosexuals. Hence why I object to Muslims throwing gays off roof tops. Let me be clear; I do not support the execution of homosexuals. We will all be judged for our sins. So you’ve hit the nail on the head Bradley, faith allows me to have genuine feelings to that which, you might say, isn’t ‘tangible’. I see Gods Tangibility in EVERYTHING that exists on earth.

I think you would support it if it came to that. NIV's update over KJV is God's words altered, which means neither of them are God's word.

You think I would support what if it came to what?

I was getting a haircut from a young gay man once and I asked him what he thought of Marriage Equality and he said he thought it was not a good idea because some gay people have multiple partners and they should not get married.

A Theocracy.

He probably felt awkward.

He probably felt awkward.

It was a genuine question on my part. I was expecting a yes from him.

You’re suggesting a gay man can’t have an opinion that doesn’t conform with liberal values? Not very liberal of you.

I certainly want my country run by a Christian, 💯

So you would like a Theocracy where if you had a boyfriend, he could trade you for a goat or something?

😂 Ok this just went from relatively sensible debate to lunacy.

You’re suggesting a gay man can’t have an opinion that doesn’t conform with liberal values? Not very liberal of you.

Group think. Anyone with an identity has to conform to that identity.